Searcher: Rich, Thanks for your comment on my blog! did you get my reply ?
Searcher: I am reading "The Christians as the Romans Saw Them" by Robert Wilken
Rich: Cool... I bet that is interesting... I love the cultural stuff! LOVE IT!!!
Searcher: That is certainly new territory for me. It is interesting. I haven't done much reading that has to do with strictly biblical stuff meanwhile I am reading through Acts also..I will see if the two complement each other.
Rich: Wonderful! My reading range tends to be Biblical, Anthropological, Sociological, Cultural and Theological as well. My teaching in the DCP also pushes me into Humanities, Leadership, Business and Communication as well... it really helps
Searcher: That sounds great... those are my interests as well..I am thinking of exploring philosophy more
Rich: That would be good as well... BUT, while you read all of those kinds of things, you gotta make sure you are grounded to your core
Searcher: yeah...that sounds responsible
Rich: All disciplines are inherently "evangelizing" and "polyannic."
Searcher: Right…
Rich: I know that you probably know all of this, sorry if I sound obvious
Searcher: no it's good to hear...I was talking about accountability
Rich: I just have had a few former students swerve off the path recently... makes me sad... maybe they'll swerve back!
Searcher: Yeah...sometimes I wonder if I am swerving
Rich: Why do you say that?
Searcher: Well...when we have these discussions about politics... especially with some of the stuff I wrote last time... I think to myself... I have formed these opinions just by reading the news by myself and then when I present these ideas a some people I respect disagree with me which is ok
Rich: Question: My sense is that you are still trying to find yourself... your true non-negotiable core... Given where you are... do you find yourself living in such a way that "greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world; or does the world make more significant inroads into who you really are? Who is affecting the other more in a healthy way?
Sent at 11:20 AM on Thursday
[The Following Comments Allude More To The Searcher's Comments In Their Blog]
Rich: Believe it or not, I have experienced the same here to a certain degree... The question for all of us is: Do we get what we get in a balanced fair fashion and how does what we get square with our core values about life and faith? Just so you know... I read or skim three Newspapers a day... all three would fall into the "liberal" category... Recently, I cancelled one and subscribed to a more conservative one. I also subscribed to Newsweek Mag. I watch (normally) the evening news, local and national and then I usually watch Fox - where I get both views... normally... Greta, Hannity and Combs (Combs can be formidable) Bill O'Reilly (he's Right of center) Shepherd Smith (I think he's one of the closest of the unbiased journalists that I have seen so far) whew!
Sent at 11:24 AM on Thursday
Rich: So, I try to get a fairly well rounded view. Again, so that you know... Politically... I grew up in a blue collar home... my father worked for the steel mill.. Earlier in my childhood we had to go on welfare for a short period of time.... I grew up on the bastion of blue collar, liberal of the USA... So all of these things have helped to inform me... Still learning though!
Searcher: Haha....I feel like have oscillated from Conservative...and have swung towards liberal...but I am still trying to find my spot I guess
Rich: One final thought... I have done inner city ministry in the following cities, many numerous times: Wash DC, Philadelphia (Campolo's EAPE Program), Pittsburgh, Chicago, The Bronx in New York City... I just don't want you to think that as a moderate conservative, I have not had some background and experience from the other side.
Searcher: Gotcha....Rich I know that you have the ability to see things from both sides...that is why I respect you...but it is interesting to hear that you have EXPERIENCED things from both sides
Rich: Re: your last post: Given your stage and place in life... and educational discipline... that experience would be normative. You are in a sense, testing what your real core values are and ought to be... which is excellent... If I may... just don't do it alone, in a vacuum or in some worldview socio/political ghetto... You are a wonderfully bright, sensitive person... with REAL ability...
Searcher: so you keep yourself grounded by [being] in a learning community?
Rich: I was just talking with my students yesterday and said to them, that in as much as we "pursue, KNOWLEDGE, WISDOM AND UNDERSTAND" we imitate God. Biblical interpretation as well as "life" interpretation should always been done in "community."
Yes! And people like yourself, have kept me balanced the other way... [One of the functions of community] Because you articulate yourself well... I respect your ability to see "reality" and to represent it well. You are a thinker and I love and respect that about you. Duh... so many "respects" you'd think I could come up with other synonyms! :-)
Searcher: Haha..so I need you...we need each other...I must find people here also...to keep me grounded
Sent at 11:37 AM on Thursday
Rich: I think one of the key dynamics is: "What does truth (reality) look like; and what does love (compassionate implementation) of it look like in this world? How do we strike that balance and/or the dynamic interplay of those things in life? People, because of their wiring and experiences tend to fail on one side or the other... not the healthy tension that is necessary... Remember that the healthy tension, which is so hard, is counter to the Fall (dis-integration) and closer to Shalom (integration - life in its original balanced relationships of all things)...
Searcher: Wow... yeah
Rich: Sort like the Ying Yang thing... [Only in terms of the need for "balance" as a phenomena – NOT an equal balance between good and evil] A concept that our oriental friends devised through natural revelation
Searcher: Haha...I love it "common grace."
Rich: yep!
Searcher: Hahaha.......isn't "common grace" one of the essential teachings of Reformed thought? I mean i learned about common grace at Geneva....that idea is heresy in the fundamentalist places i came from originally?
Sent at 11:45 AM on Thursday
Rich: Sure it is... by I am not sure they would want to take it that far... McGrath would argue, I think, what he calls a kind of "cautious inclusivism" meaning: that JESUS [NOTE; If He Wanted To] works throughout the world, through: the image of God in us, the Law of God written upon our hearts and minds, whatever "truth" that is imbedded in their indigenous religion, Natural Revelation, and His omnipresence to bring people - independently apart from the church into a restorative relationship with Him. That is to say, we cannot know for sure all the ways and means that Christ works in this world to draw people into a saving relationship with Himself. Christ may, IF HE WANTED TO, use the things listed above to save those who have never heard of Him.
Searcher: gotcha
Rich: Some "Cautious Inclusivists" would argue: "Do we REALLY want to place the salvation of the entire world (60 billion historically) into the hands of the institution church? Given that, are we really prepared to say that in the 2,000 year history of the church (this is changing radically now south of the equator) that most of the Elect are from Europe, North America and a few million in South East Asia?
Searcher: I wrestled with this some while I was in Greece...this is what makes me liberal...when constructing a theology on things like this I always like to error on the side of love
Rich: To extend their argument... Historically, the Jacobs that he loved were mostly white Europeans... Hmnnn... and the Esau's that he hated were Africans, Indians, Chinese etc.. Does Jesus work to save them in some way? Without putting a number or percentage to it?
Searcher: I feel as though I must error on one side b/c I cannot know absolute truth [absolutely].
Rich: We encounter these problems when we privilege a single attribute of God over (and sometimes against) all of the other communicable attributes of God.
Searcher: again...tension...balance soverignty....love
Rich: We... We never know exactly how God works right? Yep... Think about it... God is like a Perfect Diamond, each facet representing an attribute of His. No one facet is greater, better, or more important. For the diamond to be perfect all the facets must be represented in some way... Denomination and faith traditions tend to privilege one facet over the others... See now I sound like a social scientist liberal! LOL!
God must be known and experienced by the fullness of who His is, not just one part... If that happens... they you have set the stage potentially for heresy... This does not mean that you won't experience, at times, one part more than another, it just means that the light that comes through the other facets are reflected through the one primarily experienced. [Edited In] The reason why certain facet(s) are privileged more than others by certain faith traditions is because: 1. They tend to resonate with certain personality types and 2. Strong leaders for whom a particular facet works well, tend to privilege that facet for their followers – resulting in those leaders developing a theological system. 3. Certain facet(s) may speak more powerfully during a time of historical need and crisis for the Body of Christ.
Searcher: Wow..this is great stuff so working out common grace takes a lot of experience being close experiencing God
Rich: I enjoyed talking with you... Maybe you are just being kind... sorry if I took too much time. I am going to have to go in a minute! I am supposed to be working on my sermon and thesis today. :-( Yes common grace is more than just a theorethcal proposition, that we give a nod to and then move on... it is work
Searcher: No rich I enjoy talking as well and you did not take to much time discussions like this take me out of the vacuum..and put me in community
Sent at 11:59 AM on Thursday
Searcher: Thanks, Rich. Take care. I will pray that God guides you as you prepare your message. Take care
Rich: Thanks man! Love you brother!
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